What the chapter on hiring for today misses about building for tomorrow.

Anna Swayne: All right. Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining us for this next episode of missing chapters so excited. You're here with us today, and I'm excited to talk to Skylar. We'll we'll everyone hop on, but if you're call, if you're zooming in, tell us where you're zooming in from.

I'm zooming in from Salt Lake City. Got, are you East coast.

Skyler Badenoch: Zooming in today from New York City.

Anna Swayne: New York City. All right. Okay, so yeah, use that chat. Don't be afraid. Intro yourself where you're zooming in from.

Skyler Badenoch: Right.

Anna Swayne: These miss.

Skyler Badenoch: Jacob.

Anna Swayne: All right, Jacob, welcome back, Jacob. He's faithful on. Came last month awesome. Well, while everyone's joining.

Skyler Badenoch: Away from the 1st person we.

Anna Swayne: Yeah. Good.

Skyler Badenoch: Says something in the chat, so, Jacob, you just won. We're not sure what you got. But figure that out at the end.

Anna Swayne: Use for it. We'll get. We'll get. We'll get you something. Jacob. No. Really excited to talk today. Oh, stickers! Yes.

Skyler Badenoch: Let's go.

Anna Swayne: I like, I like stickers. We are having a 10 K competition. Well, it's not really a competition. It's it's loose. But where it's a fundraiser right now for those who struggle with medical bills. It's with an organization called Undo medical. Have you heard of that skylar by chance.

Skyler Badenoch: I haven't heard of that. But but I I definitely feel like that's just a hugely important issue right now, especially with how expensive medical care is, and how oftentimes people can't even access medical care, because it's outside of their capacity to pay.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, exactly. So we've been doing a week long. 10 k, some people, some of my coworkers did a 10 K today like this morning, like as if that was just their normal running routine. I did not do that. It'll take me a week to do mine, but just made me think about those stickers idea, because there were some stickers for those who were participating. So. Jacob, maybe we'll get you some of those, maybe do a quick. 10 K.

Yourself, and we'll send you some. Okay, well, let's jump into it because I'm really excited to talk about this today. This topic of you know. Well, let me just back up this whole series. Missing chapters is really around those topics that aren't in the handbook that aren't in something you learned in a degree or something you wish you would have learned, maybe earlier on in your career. And I'm excited to talk to Skylar, because I think this is such an important topic for us to discuss, especially as we think about hiring.

And how do we balance the hiring? Be for now and for the future. So I'm your host. I will be guiding this conversation, and I'm so excited to have Skylar on, because, Skylar, I have known about you and what you've been doing over at Hope for Haiti, so you wouldn't mind introducing yourself. I'm just really excited. You're here.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah, that's right. Thank you so much. And thanks for having me on today. And I'm just really grateful for the opportunity to talk about one of the most important things in my mind, which is people. You know, we really believe that you can have a great strategic plan, and you can have good budget. But those 2 things are only as good as the people who are implementing and so my name is Skylar Badnock. I'm the CEO of Hope for 80 been running, helping, run the organization for the last 8 years and my background is in international development. I was a Peace Corps volunteer many, many years ago in West Africa Coast, and then moved over to an organ or went to graduate school at the George Washington University and then moved over to an organization called Build on building schools all around the world. And I did that for a decade, both on the management side, the fundraising side. And then I had the honor and the opportunity to join the team at Hope for Haiti. And so I'm part of an amazing team of people who are focused on improving the quality of life for Haitian people, particularly women and children.

And we do that because we have a team on the ground. There's highly skilled, highly dedicated. very perseverant in the face of enormous challenges. They are doctors and nurses. They're educators, their administrators, and they do incredibly inspiring work and important work, lifting up people in their community. and by improving education and healthcare and access to clean water and economic development in southern part of Haiti and you know. Oftentimes people ask about Haiti, and they say, you know, listen, we've heard that 80 is a difficult place to to work in. And we've heard that, you know, there's gang violence and unrest. And some people say we've heard that there's no hope, and we absolutely, fundamentally reject that as an organization, we know there's hope. We know there's, it's possible to help make things better for individuals, families, communities. And that's what we strive to do every single day at hope for. Haiti is to resource and empower leaders. friends in Haiti, so that they can do good work for their community members, and we get to see the outputs every single day, every single week, every single month, every single year for Haiti. And so just really proud to be part of the team and be part of something that I feel is much, much bigger than myself.

Anna Swayne: That's super inspiring, super inspiring. Well, thank you for sharing a little bit about what you do and the awesome organization you help lead every day.

So okay, Skylar, let's.

Skyler Badenoch: Let's get into it.

Anna Swayne: Yes, get into it like.

Skyler Badenoch: All right.

Anna Swayne: Pumped. This is really those who may have just popped in missing chapters is a series in which we discuss topics that maybe weren't discussed previously in any other, you know, handbook or in a career development class, or anything like that. And today we're really talking about, how do we build for tomorrow. I can't think of anyone better to have with us. And so, Skylar, thank you for joining us.

Okay, so to kick things off. Let's just jump right into it. And I want to. I wanna like pick your brain here, and and how you view like, what are organizations like getting wrong about hiring for immediate performance versus long term potential.

Skyler Badenoch: I love that question because, you know, we've been thinking a lot about you know, when you hire like, what are you? What are you looking for? And who's gonna be the higher that the team member and the colleague who's going to serve the mission? Not for, you know, the 1st 90 days. Because we, I think we always put a big focus on okay, like, we hired somebody. Here's your 90 day plan. And you know, it's gonna then you're gonna show that. You've you've contributed the organization. And you're on a path to making like transformational impact in your role. And it doesn't always happen that way. Like the impact cycle is much longer than 90 days. If you're in fundraising, the the development cycle is much. Sometimes development cycles 24 months. And so I think oftentimes too many organizations really. but too much focus on the 1st 90 days, instead of like thinking it like, what are the 1st 2 years look like. and then, after that, what are the first? st What are the the next 3 years look like? And and so you know that I think that sometimes the mistake is you over prioritize this like immediate output over like in this person, make a transformational impact in the organization over the course of a of a long period of time. And so that's what I think organizations are are oftentimes getting wrong.

Anna Swayne: Yeah. So how do you know? Why? Do you think there's just that temptation then to like wanna hire that that superstar so fast, so.

Skyler Badenoch: I did.

Anna Swayne: How do you? How do you like? I know it's fast paced hiring environment today? So like, yeah, how do you.

Skyler Badenoch: You're exactly right. It's speed. And I think that's I think that's because we live in this like very pace.

High stakes world where there's a sense of urgency to have somebody come in and just be an absolute superstar, and that that sometimes exists. It can be it can. It can. It's possible. And it's happened. I've seen it happen. But there's another. There's another side, and I think there's another path. Which is, you know, instead of like hiring somebody who is just like gonna gonna crush it for 6 to 9 months, or 12 months, or 24 months and then leave because they're looking for something else like I think there, there is some value in taking a look at people who are they stay they have a history of staying at places and and really making an impact and improving on performance and improving on output and and adding to the the value of the culture of an organization and even, you know, being a servant leader within an organization. those things oftentimes are overlooked because we're like we need to hire somebody now, and that person needs to make this impact tomorrow, or that person needs to raise this money, or, in the case of like A for profit, you know, that's this person needs to bring in, you know, X amount of dollars in sales immediately. And so I think oftentimes there's somebody out there with growth potential that gets overload.

Anna Swayne: So interesting. Do you feel like it's partially because we wait too long to hire, and maybe you maybe you can share a story where you know, you hired someone that wasn't like super polished on paper. Or you just saw that potential.

And you know we're able to bring them and develop them into a long term asset.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah, well, I think there's a couple of things about that. And I don't think waiting too long is a bad thing.

Because sometimes you fall into a situation where, like, okay, we're gonna hire for a position. And that position just doesn't have any candidates that are good fits, and I and I I don't believe in a perfect fit. By the way, I never have. I don't think there's a such thing as a perfect fit. I think everybody has room to grow. even even the CEO, you know, like that's that is a that's an important distinction to be made. There's never a perfect fit, and if you start waiting for a perfect fit, or you hire somebody you think is a perfect fit, there's gonna be disappointment. There's gonna be disappointment. So I think that's 1 thing waiting. And then And then sometimes, you know, when you're when you're building a team you have to take into account. Not just like, is this person, you know.

Sometimes people are really good interviews. I've had really good interviews with people, and then sometimes it just doesn't work out because they interview better than they perform.

And I've had the case. I've also you know, worked with some folks, and I wouldn't. Wanna. I wouldn't want to say who right now. But but I worked with some folks. I'm like that interview was just okay, and I wasn't the main hiring manager and so I was in on the interview process. But that person who just had an okay interview. It's like the person who's still working and making an impact. 5 years later, 8 years later, at a high level and has, you know, been on their own journey of professional and personal development, and they haven't held the same job that they were hired for. And they they're held. They're holding a senior leadership position in in at hope for Haiti And so I think there's something we said about that. And and that is like, don't just take one or 2 things into consideration when you're when you're hiring somebody, especially when you're like this person is gonna gonna just come out and hit a bunch of grand slams, for you. Rarely do I see it play out like.

Anna Swayne: Even those that yeah have, like the most polished resume or the most polished interviewing experience. So how do you? How do you.

Skyler Badenoch: And I wanted to give you another example, because I have one of my favorite examples. It's a story, really. But it's back to. When I 1st started working in Haiti and I had to go hire people. I had to hire a construction team, and I had to hire and to hire.

You know, folks who are going to go out and do participatory development work. And so I did. And I you know, we had a small budget in a very short timeline, and so we had to get this. We had. We had to get a school built and show that we should. We had to show proof of concept that we were going to be able to open up a a school construction program in Haiti. And so I hired 3 people. and the 1st person who I hired was like the highest level. He's like the manager and and he spoke English really. Well, that's probably one of the reasons I hired him, so I didn't speak Creole very well at the time I was like, I need somebody I could communicate, and then like underneath my heart construction like engineer. And then, underneath the engineer there was like a mason, and sort of like a a sort of technical construction guy. So these 3 guys, we went out to the builder for school and and there's this particular methodology that we are working with where you have to like. Everybody has to participate. This isn't like a it's not like a school you build like the moms and dads are are carrying rocks and digging foundation in school the parents are doing. And as a team member of the organization I was working for a bill on, you have to do it, too, like you have to lead by example.

And so the guy who I hired was like the manager was like, I'm manager. I'm gonna watch, and I'm gonna watch everybody do the work, and maybe even like like maybe caught napping or something like that under a tree, I'm like this is. And and we did some redirection, you know, and we were all we're working in this community. We're all trying to get this school built. And so, you know there's leniency. Because I like he doesn't know the culture we're we're we're like in our 1st week of work. And so I was like, Well, no, this is how we're gonna do it. This is how it has to be done. And and you know we we had. We had to have like there were like multiple occasions where this person just didn't get the methodology.

But the other 2 people did. And so the funny part of the story is, and I'll try to make it as short as possible. But we're all sleeping in the same house, and we're we're sleeping, and it's a fishing village, so like every house is like a 2 or 3 bedroom house, and we're all kind of just sleeping next to each other, like on the floor, you know. And and so I had to go back to the United States but it wasn't working out with this guy, and so I was like, the next day I had to leave. I had to. I had to let him go, and so it was at night. I told the 2 guys like, Hey. but that because the the engineer I was like, Hey, you're going to hire. I'm gonna promote you up. You're gonna run this program. You can. You know exactly what we're trying to do, and the skilled worker was just the best. He became like both those 2 guys became like my colleagues for many years, but also to my best friends in Haiti over the next decade. Just amazing people and we became great friends. But the other guy, I was actually sleeping right next, like, like next to, you know, in a big room. And I was like, Hey, I had to. Maybe like you're. This is. This is your last day, and we're gonna let you go, and we're gonna give you a few. And then I was like, All right, good night. And I like turned around, you know, and and all of a sudden my my friends started giggling. They're like, man. You better sleep with one eye open because.

Anna Swayne: You know.

Skyler Badenoch: And that's not a normal situation like I've never found myself in that situation before. By the way, I was really early in my career. But I'll never forget it, because I was like, never have I, you know, had to do that in that circumstance, and it all worked out. But I just.

Anna Swayne: Yeah.

Skyler Badenoch: It was a good lesson, and it was my, my! I was just hiring for immediacy like, oh, this guy speaks English. He says he's talks a pretty good game, and it turned out he just didn't get it. He didn't get what we were trying to do, and so the other 2 guys did, and they were. They were hustlers, and they loved to work on the work site, inspire people. And we're great at community development. And they took they they really were the reason why, you know, today they're they built the 1st school there. But today there's like, I think, 125 schools that this organization is built in Haiti and plus, I've lost track. But those 2 guys are the reason that because they were the foundation. They're no longer there. But you know it's it. It was a good. It's a good lesson to me right.

Anna Swayne: Yeah.

Skyler Badenoch: And so

Anna Swayne: Yeah, I love that. It's like you hired you. You can clearly look back on it now.

Okay, that's exciting. It's a.

Skyler Badenoch: Oh, my! Gosh!

Anna Swayne: Hired for immediacy. But what I really needed is XY, and Z. So like, okay, that's 1 example.

Skyler Badenoch: Yes.

Anna Swayne: Funny like who has to fire.

Skyler Badenoch: Names.

Anna Swayne: One that they are, you know, sharing.

Skyler Badenoch: Sharing a room with.

Anna Swayne: Hopefully, no one else on this call. So okay, so, Skylar. Now that you've had time to reflect on that and years of just reflection. How do you personally spot these? You know, these candidates who have resilience and adaptability and kind of like those, you know more, you know, checklist things that are going to like those 2 guys, the engineer and the skilled worker.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah.

Anna Swayne: Take your company further than you could even imagine in that scenario, when that happens.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah. So I think there are a couple of things you can do, and you can't always get it right. But I think there's some questions you can ask within the interview process, though the quite the interview process is really important. You know, asking the right questions, asking examples, because sometimes, through people's examples and real life experiences, you can. You can glean a little bit about like they would fit into your work culture, and and oftentimes, by the way, like, when when we're hiring, we're not just hiring for like, is this person gonna be a good fit for the position like could this person do the job? But we also think about like, does this 1st person fit into the core values of the organization? And so we're very. We're very intentional about our core values. It's it's resilience, empowerment, accountability, collaboration and hope. And so oftentimes we're asking questions about how people share or show resilience in their work.

People show up when it's time to be accountable. You know how they empower others and giving examples, and then and then for me, hoping, you know. you know. collaboration, one of the biggest things that that we do at over 80. It's not just like we're not just collaborating with partners. We're collaborating with each other. You know. And so, having colleagues who feel comfortable collaborating with each other, regardless of who gets like the credit for what goes right or the credit for what goes wrong really like that collaboration is such an important piece, and so asking asking the interview questions that that help us sort of determine how people are aligned with their core values is is definitely something that's helped us along the interview process. And then, you know not just the questions and the examples references help. So you know, we can always check references. And I always, I appreciate a good story. So you know, if somebody could tell me a story about if it's if it's a fundraising job I'm always like, tell me a story about when you raise money that helped somebody. you know, move the mission forward, and you know you either have that or you don't. You could tell really quickly like, if you ask me that question I'd tell you I got. I got through those stories about a donor who I met in a relationship that I was that I was lucky enough to to be a part of that ended up in a donation that supported a mission or supported an organization, or help somebody out. So if you're if you're in that, if you're in that fundraising position, you probably have to have those stories. Otherwise you kind of see right through it. And and that kind of goes. For you know, if you're in a if it's a management, position or an admin position, being able to tell the story of. You've successfully been able to navigate it previously helps and so that's what I'd say. I mean a again I I go back to this idea that it's it. Nobody's perfect. And so, you know, you kind of have to. You kind of have to have a methodology for interviewing. Have a rubric. do all your due diligence as you possibly can, and then, like cross your fingers that it's the right fit.

Because you know, sometimes it's not, and it and it feels terrible. Nobody wants that you know. I remember somebody asked me one. At one time I was I was interviewed for a candidate. and One of the people who managed above me said, Well. how do you know if this person is honest?

And I said, well, I just asked them, and they said they were honest, though. and of course they're gonna say they're honest. So you can't really know everything until you really get deep into the the working together process and collaborating, sharing core values. And you know, working towards something that's, you know, bigger than ourselves. And so it's there's a there's a methodology for sure, but there's also part of it's feels pretty lucky sometimes. And so you gotta put yourself in the best position to have the best possible luck that you can.

Anna Swayne: Oh, I like that. Put yourself in the best possible position to find to have the best possible luck.

Skyler Badenoch: Give me one second because I'm gonna write that down. I did not.

Anna Swayne: Oh, I'm like, I'm literally writing it down myself. I'm like, yeah, cause you're right, cause like, you know, you can't leave it all to chance. But you have to prepare yourself, and I like that. You mentioned things like, you know, having questions formatted around your core values like, if you never asked the question, how you supposed to evaluate it, and I like it seems so simple. But yet it's just. It's something that each organization can truly take a step back and be like? Are these questions really hitting on those points where we're asking? Are they resilient?

Are, you know? Do they have. Some of these, of course, resume characteristics, but back to your core values, of what were they? Again, resilience, hope, accountability.

Skyler Badenoch: The acronyms reach so resilience, empowerment, accountability, collaboration and hope.

Anna Swayne: Empowerment. Okay, yeah, collaboration empowerment. Yeah, see that. And you know, and having that rubrics that helps align to that sets you up for the best possible luck.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah. And then and then, as you know, like the hiring process is one step, so is the onboarding. And I again, I'm a firm believer like onboarding can't just stop at 90 days like that. Or, like, you know, this is a 90 day plan that that whole thing. I think that that puts organizations in a bad position. I think that the the best thing we could do is intentionally and collaborative.

It really neat board people for a long time and coach and and provide support to people as they are in their rules, even if they're doing amazing job, even if they're they, you know, even if people are like, you know, we don't need help like it's just to me, it it's a better way of doing things when you feel like you're part of a team that's collaborating.

Anna Swayne: That people have your success.

Skyler Badenoch: Viewed as their success. I don't know if you know what I mean by that, but, like.

Anna Swayne: Oh, yeah.

Skyler Badenoch: But that's super important, like. And I say this all like I. I feel like this with my colleagues.

If they succeed, that feels like a success to me like it. Feel like when I've had colleagues who like perform really well on something like feels like success to me when you do that when you're able to do. You know extraordinary things in the face of? Because I get to be. I feel like I'm part of it. and I hope we all feel like that. And so we, I think when you can create that kind of environment. You know, good things will happen. The inverse is true, you know, so the inverse is true, and so we don't go into detail about it. But we know that, you know if your failure feels like somebody else's success as a recipe for disaster. and that's not the right culture. You want to be a part of.

Anna Swayne: No, I'm curious like, what are some of the things that you've done at hope for Haiti to help foster that kind of culture, because I think it does play a huge role in that you have the right people, and then.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah. Well, I I think the thing that I I believe deeply this. And you know, maybe sometimes it's been tested, and sometimes it's it's felt like. Maybe there's some flaws in this way of leadership.

But the thing that I feel like I've done the most is to make space for other people to lead.

That to me is the thing is to give up this like this idea, that, like Ceos, the one and only authoritative voice within an organization. And just make sure that my colleagues know that they have a voice, not just a voice, but like they, it's their input, that will matter. And so that's the 1st thing. And and I think that comes along with maybe the ability to at least have some space for not being right, or have space for doing it, doing things a different way, or trying things a different way.

And and and when leaders are able to do that. I think that that might empower others to take more risks, or even have ownership and autonomy in their work. I just think about myself, you know, when I was when I was coming up. What helped and worked with me, and it doesn't help and work with everybody but what helped and work with me was like, when somebody's like, Okay, here's your goal. Go get it. You figure it out. You get to figure out how you do it, and nobody was like you should do it this way and walk a certain like, walk this way and talk this way. They're like the goal. The end goal is yours, and let it speak for itself. and that to me is is I. I thrive on that, and and you know sometimes you fall short, and that's where accountability comes in.

Sometimes you blow it out of the water, and you exceed your expectations that can feel really amazing. So there's that at hope for Haiti. One other thing, I think that is, has been very helpful to our organization, because we're, you know, we're we're 36 years in is hiring and working to promote performing team members. As they succeed in in providing a career path for people beyond one or 2 years, you know. And so we have several team members who have been with the organization for 8, 9, 10 years, and they haven't held the same job. But they've contributed in significant levels. And they continue to contribute significant levels. And that to me, is a good sign of an organization that brings people along that allows room for growth, that values performance and and creates a team environment.

And so you know, let's just those are. Those are a couple of things, and then I think the here's 1 last thing I think is really important is that this work is super serious, like. Sometimes it's life and death, and sometimes like it feels it feels if he and Haiti will make it feel what's going on in Haiti will make it feel even heavier.

And so one of the things that we I try to remind myself and others is that we have to be and stay humorous even in the even. Not  like inappropriately. But we gotta have a way to like ourselves, laugh at the situation like like, find humor in the work, find humor in the things that you know are challenge us, and sometimes that just gives it gives everything a little bit of levity, so that we're not just always overwhelmed by the crushing challenges that we feel like we face per day.

Anna Swayne: Wow! I like that a lot. Give. Give yourself permission to do that.

Skyler Badenoch: Only. I remember. I remember when it was the 2021 earthquake. It was the 2021 earthquake in Haiti. It was really tough time for us, and it wasn't like 2010, which was also just incredibly challenging time. But 2021 and we were doing very meaningful relief work. A humanitarian relief work for people who are displaced, homeless, maybe injured. seeking access to care or water, and it felt the it felt heavy.

And I I can specifically remember a couple of times when we kind of took a break, and especially with our drivers and hope for Haiti, these guys shout out to our drivers. By the way, because they're like they're they're in some ways in many ways the backbone of what we do at hope for Haiti, because they get us safely to from point A to Point B, they transport materials to, you know, the places that are hard to get to. They're also some of the funniest guys, and they like on the team. And so I remember we it was during the earthquake. And there's just some jokes, and you know, laughing. And and it was good reminder that even in the darkest days, in some of the hardest days like you could still figure out a way to get a smile out of somebody, and and that goes a long way.

Anna Swayne: It does go a long way. You just you feel extra supported, too, that you can be both human, and also, you know, give yourself just a little bit of a break.

Skyler Badenoch: You do, you do? You're right. Yup.

Anna Swayne: I like. I can relate a little bit with that. Sometimes, you know, as we try to help people get access to healthcare, and sometimes they get denied a claim, and that's very heavy, and it's life threatening sometimes when they can't get that surgery they needed. And so but just to give yourself permission to find humor. Smile. I like that a lot.

Skyler Badenoch: Yep.

Anna Swayne: Okay. So you've brought up a few points that I wanna ask. I wanna ask follow up questions for because you know, finding the right candidate so important for this, you know immediate needs versus long term, and there is an element. And you and you said this earlier of like trying to find someone who's like a culture fit versus like ad and ensuring they're, you know, they're maybe both. I don't know. I love to hear, just like your methodology around, as someone you know, who is in interviewing positions needs to address both of those as as part of the strategy of like immediate need versus long term.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah, you know, I I just I just go back to this idea that no person and candidate is perfect. And so like. you have to look at everything.

It's it's the complexity of of hiring. Plays a significant role in who you end up hiring, and you have to be a little bit flexible, too, like you might find it like. Look all the you might you have to. You have to weigh everything, and that's why, I think having a rubric helps. But if you, if you weigh things, you're like, okay, we have like 3 candidates who are high potential growth.

But we have one candidate who can be just an absolute superstar. and you can still weigh that and be like, you know what we're going to superstar because we need a superstar right now, anyway. And or like, we're kind of in a mode where we need to develop a deep bench for our organization. And so maybe we go with people who are like going to grow into this role. And so that's what I mean by it's like, it's situational.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, okay.

Skyler Badenoch: And my I, my family members, depend like I was having to argue with my mom about something the other day, and I was like she's like, what is it this or that? I'm like? It depends. It all depends. And she's like, depends on what like depends on everything. You know. It depends on a lot of different things all at once. And so that's what hiring to me is like it. It all depends. But I think having a bigger methodology being you know, a rubric that you use following some best practices, knowing what you what you think like trusting your gut in some instances helps and then, you know, making that decision being decisive and trying to support the heck out of that person once they're on board, because that's just a big part of it. And you know, once you bring somebody onto an organization, there's a cost to everybody. There's a cost to everybody.

There's a cost to the organization. There's a cost to the person who's spending their time. you know, and they're they're lively, their their, you know, good chunk of their life. you know, 8 h, sometimes more day. So there's a cost. And so we have to be. Be careful and treat that decision with a lot of like. There's sanctity to the decision that we make when we hire people.

And we try to give it our best shot, and and then, you know. do the best we can to support and make it successful, for for both the organization or the the business, or whatever it is, and and the team member.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, the cost. That's I'm so glad you brought that up, because I don't think we often think about that. I just had a friend like text me right before this call, and was like they had just hired a manager for her, like maybe 4 months ago, and this manager has now left. And I was like, Wow, that is a cost like not only just the onboarding of that individual, and the time it took for all these employees to onboard this individual and do all the things. And you can't help but ask myself like, did that person actually get set up for success? So I'm curious like, how do you think about those costs like, what are some examples of hidden costs when we think about balancing immediate need versus long term team.

Skyler Badenoch: I mean, I think the even the hiring process itself. The fact that it takes time is a cost right? I mean, we all. We all are paid a salary.

And so with that salary, you know, there's time that we spend to, you know. do live up to the description or a job descriptions. And so, you know, if we're spending one or 2 or 3 or 4 h trying to find the right person or more. and doing the interviews and doing the follow up. There's a monetary cost that it takes. And then again, I always think of the candidate, too. I've been in the same position where you know we've had to. You've had to. You have to interview for a position. So that's your time. Your cost. So get. That's why it's so important to get it right. It's probably one of the hardest things in running an organization is hiring. It's 1 of the scariest things, because you're like I get it wrong. It could be totally detrimental and set us back. And if I get it right, we're going to exponentially grow. And good things are gonna happen.

And so I think it's like it can be. It can be a little bit scary sometimes. because the stakes are high for a lot of organizations. You know, we wanna we wanna grow. We want to do well, we want to achieve. We want to do better. And in hope for Haiti's case, we wanna make a bigger impact for people living in Haiti. And so the way we hire is it determines our ability to make an impact. And so that's why it feels pretty high stakes all the time.

Anna Swayne: Only imagine. And you're such a mission oriented company, not to say No. All companies are, but I feel like the way you talk about it, and even like your culture. just feels very mission driven. I'm curious like, how do you think about hiring for a mission driven company.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah. Well, I I think that the 1st thing that I'd like to hear is about experience. like if somebody's had. And here's why?

Because experience breeds passion, experience expires. And so if you think about the things that you care about. think about the causes that you care about most, you know we all there's certain things is what we care about. We may not have even experienced like never experienced homelessness, but care about it. May care about that issue.

But there are certain things that we also experience that breed passion. And so if you're looking for people who share that passion, oftentimes it's right at their right. It's it's right at their experience, like, what have you experienced that it's that's you 2 feel passionate or driven towards this mission that helps and then you know. Then, secondly, I think that it's important just to hear the why and give people space to explain why. you know, they're interested in the job or the opportunity to make a difference. And oftentimes you can. You can really see through authenticity with those answers so given, you know, somebody's ex explanation of experience, and also their why, those 2 things, I think, help really make sure you're you're getting closer to hiring the right person, who's, you know, ready to work in a mission driven organization?

I have a I have a little preference, but it doesn't. It's not always, you know. It's not always like feel safe in in hiring the right person. But I tend to gravitate to people who are in into like servant leadership, and who I've worked or show an example of being part of something that's bigger than themselves. Club a team even like recognizing. Sometimes it's a university in their school, but something being part of something bigger than yourselves and and self, and like recognizing that and you know, recognizing that you play a role in that. If if people have that mentality that that oftentimes fits really well with the type of mission based organization that we are over. Haiti.

Yeah, I have a great ex. I have a great example, too. We have one of my colleagues. Unfortunately she just she just left, but she was. She made a huge impact over Haiti, and she had to move away. But he was probably one of the best servant leaders at our organization, and you could see it in the way that she approached her work, and it was in the field. So she was running healthcare programs, and she was like he would embed herself with the team. She would. She was manager, so she would manage, but she would also, like Embed herself. She would do the same work as others, he would.

Anna Swayne: Cool.

Skyler Badenoch: Find she would build relationships at work. And so, by the time you know, she had her time at hopefully run a course she had to leave the country beloved, beloved, as a colleague. Everybody was like this person's amazing, and has made so much of an impact. And to me. I think it started with her whether she knew it or not, ability to be a servant leader, and he just served others so well that it shined through in in the way that our team responded to her leadership. You know, it's a good lesson. Yeah.

Anna Swayne: That's really cool.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah.

Anna Swayne: That servant leadership is a fascinating skill, not one that can just be turned on. It really comes through that experience. I think you're.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah, a little bit.

Anna Swayne: About. There's a day desire, but it also like just having being able to actually do it, I think helps you become better at it.

Skyler Badenoch: Too. Yeah, it's like a mindset, too, like I was telling somebody there, and hope nobody thinks they work for me. That would be that that would. That would almost be like demoralizing to me. If somebody's like I work for skylar like it's just. I don't like that mentality. It doesn't. And I've heard people say that before.

I've even heard like colleagues like somebody I knew a friend. He was like, Yeah, I was. I was up for this job, and the person was like, I can't wait for to have you work for me. He's like I didn't take the job. and I'm like, I know why you didn't take the job, because you're in service to the the mission, and and if you're in service you're working together, you're not working for. And so you know that that feel very strongly about that, like nobody works for me. We work together and nobody works for them either. If you're a manager on our team.

Anna Swayne: Yeah.

Skyler Badenoch: If you're a, you know, if you if you like. There's an org chart, of course, but like like like, the thing I think about is my job is to serve my colleagues so that they can be better at what they do, and that makes a bigger impact in the organization. And that makes a bigger impact for people who are incredibly challenged. Right now in Haiti.

Anna Swayne: Wow! And that ties back to just like you want someone who's in it, for the, you know, like that long term impact kind of back to what you were saying at the beginning of you want to hire someone who's wants to show up and make a long term impact. Not just a couple quick hits, and they're out.

Skyler Badenoch: And

Anna Swayne: And you know, having that kind of skill set, or that kind of mindset helps develop that.

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah, you know, I I even sometimes I don't know if well, and there's a lot it depends is my favorite word of the day. But sometimes I know right. See, I use that But sometimes like if somebody in an interview is like, I'm not looking for my next 2 year gig. I'm looking for a place where I can like make an impact and grow for 10 years.

That gets me excited like, that's like, okay, this person sees the opportunity this person sees potential. and it may or may not happen like things happen. You know. organizations scale up, scale down people come, people go. Life changes. But like even the intention that that helps for me. And I've maybe I and I, I recognize my bias because that's kind of like I'm like, what is it? There's somebody who's teaching our organization and he's coaching our organization right now. She's a strategic coach, amazing. And she's teaching us a lot about bias. And one of my biases, like people who want to stick around and do the work together. But that's kind of like who I am, too. Like I wanna I don't wanna stay. I didn't. I never wanted to stay at home for 80 for 2 years. I want to stay for like a decade and make an impact.

And then eventually, one day when I, when I leave the organization, whenever that is no plans but that I'd leave it better off than I found it. and and if somebody comes in with that kind of mentality, I'd say they have a leg up in the hiring process.

Anna Swayne: I like that a lot. I know you. You read leadership books who, like some leaders, secretively want the organization to fail after they leave. And you're like, oh, that's terrible!

Skyler Badenoch: Yeah.

Anna Swayne: Assess those people out. Yeah, you know. But well, very fascinating sky, you have such great stories. You're such a great storyteller. I love it. I'm sure we could talk hours on end about.

Skyler Badenoch: Could.

Anna Swayne: The audio.

Skyler Badenoch: Extension to this podcast right. Now.

Anna Swayne: Yes, we'll just have you on that. We'll just have you on.

Skyler Badenoch: No, I'm just joking.

Anna Swayne: But I just love what hope for Haiti is doing. And you know, thank you. Thank you.

Driven they are in the organization. And how many people you're helping is just really cool. So to kind of tie this all up, got one last question for you.

Skyler Badenoch: Great.

Anna Swayne: So what would you suggest or recommend? Like small shifts organizations can make today to really start moving away from the short term isms to think more long term in their hiring and their growth.

Skyler Badenoch: Okay, I'm gonna try 3 things. And I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna wing in a little bit, too. So the 1st one, I think, and we kind of covered. This is air for core value or for core values.

Anna Swayne: Good tip.

Skyler Badenoch: And you know your organization or your business. You know what your core values are, and if you can, if you can, if you can really figure out which candidates align most with your core values that might bring you one step closer to hiring the best candidate who's gonna make a huge impact for your organization or company.

So that's the 1st thing. The second thing isn't always about, I mean but it's just like so like it. It kind of goes hand in hand, like the onboarding process. And the support process is an extension of the hiring process. And so that's the other thing is, make sure that you're providing support and mentorship in every possible way. Because people I think today they crave mentorship. They crave support, and then they crave, being able to be autonomous and successful in their own, you know, role within organization or team. So that's the second thing, and then the 3, rd and that is, I'm not saying don't hire the superstar, because hire the superstar. If you feel it's the right right thing for your organization. but don't discount the growth potential of people who might just be a little bit, you might think underqualified for a job, because sometimes the the work ethic to get to. You know, success in that that role might be even greater.

And so if you can figure that out. it's not easy. It's not exact science, I know, but don't discount the ability to to hire somebody who's gonna just really grow into a role stick around for 8 to 10 years. because at at the end of the day there's value. There's tremendous amount of in that tremendous amount of value.

Anna Swayne: That's awesome. That's awesome. Okay, there you have everyone.

Skyler Badenoch: Just gave me a hundred percent. Thank you, Jacob. Somebody's gonna give you a prize.

Anna Swayne: Yes, Jacob, we're we're gonna send you something for being so engaged in the chat. Okay, so those are 3 really great tips. We will definitely send this out. for those who have registered those who register but didn't attend. So skylar will include those tips. So thank you. Thank you, thank you. Wish you the best on.

Skyler Badenoch: Thank you, Anna.

Anna Swayne: Growing your team and the amazing work you guys are doing. So glad you were here. And hopefully, we can have you back. And you can tell more stories.

Skyler Badenoch: I really appreciate it, and thanks for helping to shed a lot on hope for Haiti as well, and the work we're doing in Haiti.

Anna Swayne: 100%. We are. We are also mission driven. And we always want to spotlight those who are doing such great work. So.

Skyler Badenoch: It's beautiful.

Anna Swayne: Thank you, Skylar. Just a couple of quick things before we totally wrap up.

Our next episode will be on the chapter of career development. And you know what that misses around finding growth outside your lane and super excited to have Jake also come on next month. So if you want to come to that, please register, and then we also have a couple of other events. We have a fixed, healthcare, live event coming. If you're in New York or in California. So you know, Scott, or maybe we can hook up in New York if you're around that time. And we are going to do some really fun things there we have a new product announcement happening at that event, as well as other leaders in the industry, just sharing similar to what we did today. And so, if you can make it to, those would love to have you. And then, if you're not a part of our community. We have a slack community. We'd love to continue this conversation or other conversations in our slack community. So please join us there, and thanks again for just taking time out of your day. We know a lot of you are so busy putting out fires and helping other people that I'm glad that you took some time out for yourself to listen to this awesome Guest series, and having Skylar on. So we'll see you next time. Thanks, everybody.

Skyler Badenoch: Thank you.

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